ORMUS, is it the Philosopher's Stone?

Interview from December 2002 issue of The Spirit of Ma'at

with Barry Carter, by Celeste Adams

Since ancient Egyptian times, alchemists have worked in secret, searching to produce something called the Philosopher's Stone or the Elixir of Life. Barry Carter and other researchers believe that ORMUS is related to this search.

Since 1995, Barry Carter has been conducting experiments with water modified by ORMUS. He has written numerous articles on the subject and leads workshops around the country where he demonstrates three methods of producing ORMUS water.

ORMUS comes from the acronym Orbitally Rearranged Monoatomic Elements, or ORMEs.[†] It was discovered in the late 1970s by David Hudson, an Arizona farmer who noticed some very strange materials on his land as he was mining for gold. During the next decade, Hudson spent several million dollars trying to understand how to create this substance and work with it.

ORMUS, which is made from water and other substances, has also been called monoatomic gold, white gold, white powder gold, m-state, AuM, microclusters, and manna.

Adams: There's a quote by D. H. Lawrence that says, "Water is hydrogen two parts, oxygen one part, and something else, though we don't know what it is." What did Lawrence mean by that?

Carter: There are many unusual properties of water that aren't explainable by the known properties of hydrogen and oxygen or by any concept of how a compound of those two elements should behave.

There are perhaps thirty-two anomalous properties of water that are unexpected. We believe that those properties are due to the presence of ORMUS in most water molecules.

Generally, it is believed that the water molecule is dodecahedral or icosahedral. In other words, the molecule is the shape of a geodesic dome, and this shape allows for a lot of space inside the molecule.

Some of us believe that the ORMUS elements hide out in that inner space, inside the dome. From that space, the ORMUS can change the configuration of the water molecule so that it tightens or expands. This is the way we think that these elements may modify the structure of water.

It's very clear that there's something else other than H₂O — two parts hydrogen and one part oxygen — in ordinary water. One person that I've worked with said that triple distilled water, weighs eight pounds per gallon, but water that's made by burning hydrogen in oxygen weighs seven pounds per gallon. The difference between seven versus eight pounds per gallon indicates that there's a pound of something else in the water.

Adams: What exactly is ORMUS?

Carter: We think it's a new form of matter that appears to have properties of Spirit. It seems to be a transition between physical reality and spiritual reality. We believe that it can be used as a communication tool between spirit and matter. It is, literally, precious metal elements in a new form, a new state of matter. In this state they don't assay or analyze as the precious metal elements. They look like a white powder instead of like a metal. They can even show up as an oil.

Because these materials look like other things, they have not been recognized by science.

We've extracted the ORMUS element from the air, from rocks, and from water, including the water of the body. We believe that, perhaps as part of the water molecule, they are the carrier of the information that restructures water. Any system for structuring water depends on the ORMUS elements.

Adams: What elements can be found in ORMUS?

Carter: The ORMUS or m-state materials are thought to be the precious metal elements in a different atomic state. Cobalt 27, Nickel 28, Copper 29, Ruthenium 44, Rhodium 45, Palladium 46, Silver 47, Osmium 76, Iridium 77, Platinum 78, Gold 79, and Mercury 80 have been identified in this different state of matter and, with the exception of mercury, are listed in Hudson's patents.

Adams: How was ORMUS first discovered?

Carter: These elements appear to have been known in ancient times. The ancient Egyptians were clearly working with the ORMUS materials in their alchemical processes, and the ancient alchemists also were working with the ORMUS elements. You hear in alchemy about "oil of gold" — which is something we've made using the various ORMUS processes. David Hudson also spoke of the oil of the elements, or the oil of metals. Some people actually claim that they remember past lives in which they were working with these materials.

Hudson discovered ORMUS when he was working with a gold-mining process. He was the first to make it known, but it's ancient knowledge that has been rediscovered. Now we are applying the tools of modern science to this ancient knowledge.

The ancient Egyptians talked about the "white powder of gold." They have pictures on their bas reliefs of little cones called "shewbread." They say these little cones are white bread, and they also say they're gold. How could something be white bread and gold at the same time? Well, now we know. We've got the technology to make the white powder of gold and form it into a cone-shaped bread if we want to.

Several of the procedures for extracting or making ORMUS have been adapted from ancient alchemical texts. We believe that the Philosopher's Stone and the Biblical manna are both variations on this state of matter. Some recommended alchemical texts related to the Philosopher's Stone are Sacred Science by R.A. Schwaller De Lubicz, Le Mystere des Cathedrales by Fulcanelli, and Occult Chemistry by Leadbeater and Besant. The premier treatise on the subject may be The Secret Book by Artephius.

Adams: Why do you think this information has become available now?

Carter: I think it's because all of the areas of science are dealing with the question of how Spirit and matter are connected, and ORMUS helps explain this.

All the areas of science are bumping up against this question. We see people in physics saying there's a non-physical realm. David Bohm called it the Implicate Order. According to Bohm, the Explicate Order — physical reality as we know it — is a projection or a manifestation of this non-physical template.

The ORMUS elements clearly connect the realms of the spiritual and the physical. We like to compare ORMUS to the use of cellphones. It used to be we always had to use hard-wired phones, now we've got cellphones and we can walk around and talk and communicate with anybody else. So imagine that every cell in the body has a cellphone, and that they communicate with one another until the cellphone batteries go dead or the antennae are damaged.

In this analogy, we think the ORMUS elements go in and recharge the batteries on the cellphones and rebuild the antennas. Instead of just being able to talk to the cell next door, the cell in your hand now can talk to the cell in your big toe. In other words, all of the cells are instantly and continuously in communication.

Physicists and biologists call this phenomenon of instant communication "quantum coherence." Everything is coherent and in total communication, instantaneously, all at once. Each water molecule gets into resonance with every other water molecule in the body. As the water molecules change their shape and structure, the water is patterned, and changes happen in the body. Information is imparted to the cell and to the immune system, as well as to the other systems of the body. These changes allow the body to heal more rapidly because the communication is perfect.

Adams: Do you have evidence to prove that ORMUS has healing capabilities?

Carter: We have photos of a woman's tooth. The tooth had been broken in a stair-step manner, and it literally filled in just from drinking ORMUS water.

Hundreds of people have reported benefits that include pain reduction, and improvement or recovery from serious diseases like cancer, AIDS, diabetes, and so on. You can find some of these stories on our Subtle Energies website.

Several people have noticed that the ingestion of ORMUS seems to stimulate the kundalini energy flow in the body. A couple of people have said that it's like vacuuming the restricted areas of the kundalini, so that it opens the chakras that are tight or closed.

Some people who have a tight heart chakra feel as though they're having a heart attack when they drink ORMUS water. The ORMUS is actually opening the heart chakra. A couple of people with heart problems have gone to the doctor and were told that their hearts had become totally healthy.

Different ORMUS elements seem to stimulate the different chakras in a beneficial way. We're not really clear about which ones go with which chakra but there's some speculation about that. One of these days we'll get it nailed down, I'm sure.

Adams: What kind of benefits have you experienced yourself from ingesting ORMUS?

Carter: I don't hurt anymore. In my mid-forties I noticed that I had carpal tunnel in my wrist, my back ached, and I had general joint pain. When I stood up I would ache a bit. I've been taking ORMUS materials for six years and I don't hurt anymore. Now I jump up from my chair — I don't feel like I have to stand up carefully. I'm fifty-three and I feel great. I feel better than I felt when I was seventeen.

I've also been taking one of the other ORMUS elements called ORMUS copper, and my beard is clearly getting dark again. So I've had some very great benefits. I feel as though the clock is rolling back for me.

Three Processes for Creating Ormus

1. Magnetic Trap Method

Adams: Can you speak briefly about the three processes of making ORMUS, so that people can get a general idea about the different processes. I know that your website is filled with extensive details about these procedures and you've also included several cautionary notes, to help people avoid injury, but I think a concise overview will be useful for the purposes of this interview.

Can you begin with the first process, which uses the magnetic trap?

Carter: We designed magnetic traps to spin water over a magnetic field and collect the water that rises in that spin. These elements are superconductors and they levitate on magnetic fields. The rest of the water goes out the bottom of the trap and is called wastewater. The good water that comes out the top is a little oilier than the water that goes out the bottom, and it is a little bit sweeter and more pleasant tasting. The process is fairly simple.

You simply have to design a mechanism to spin water over a magnetic field. You can do that by introducing a vortex in a closed container over a magnetic field. There are several trap designs on the Web. You don't add anything to it. You just separate the ORMUS portion of the water from the other portion of the water.

Adams: How long can you drink the water that has gone through this process?

Carter: I try to drink it within a week. Some people say that it loses potency over time. I'm not sure whether it does or doesn't. I do try to store it in a magnetically shielded container or in some way that protects it.

Adams: How much does it cost to get the device to do that to the water?

Carter: It costs about two hundred dollars, but the cost of the materials to build them is more like fifty dollars.

2. Wet Method

Adams: Can you describe the wet method?

Carter: You can use the wet method on fresh water, ocean water, or any kind of salt water. You take the salt water and bring the pH — the alkalinity of the water — up to 10.78 using sodium hydroxide, which is ordinary drain-cleaner lye. Red Devil has a lye product that you can find in most supermarkets and that's what I use.

It's best if you use a pH meter to measure it, but you can also use pH paper. If you are using the paper you can't be as accurate, but you can at least get close to 10.78. It's best not to go over that pH because there are other things that will precipitate out above that level.

When you bring the pH up to 10.78, you get a white precipitate that will drop down and land on the bottom of your dish or container. I do it in a gallon jug and you can see the stuff dropping down.

Let it settle overnight, then pour the clear liquid off the top and add more fresh water — distilled water or some other clean water. Shake it up and then let it settle again. You repeat that process three times and you'll get a washed white precipitate with very little salt remaining in it. Most of the sodium hydroxide will wash out as well, so it won't be at too high a pH for it to be edible.

Adams: Does ORMUS created in this fashion have the same effect on the body when ingested as the ORMUS created in the magnetic trap method?

Carter: The effects depend on the source of the water. If you're using Dead Sea water, you will have a different effect than using ocean water or water from the Great Salt Lake. It's the same with the magnetic trap. If, for example, you're running the magnetic trap on groundwater from the mid-West, you'll probably have different results than from running it on groundwater in the mountains of Colorado. Every water source has a different mix of the ORMUS elements in varying concentration.

3. Lye Fusion Method

Adams: What is the third method?

Carter: Another method is used on rock source material. We've found that volcanic rock is attracted to a magnet — this is called paramagnetic rock. If you get a very strong magnet and you get rock powder, the stuff that's attracted to the magnet will have a lot more of the paramagnetic ORMUS materials in it.

You mix the dry powder and the dry lye together without adding water. You put in three parts of dry lye to one part dry powder rock. You heat the dry lye to where it melts — which is at six to eight hundred degrees Celsius. This will dissolve some of the ORMUS in the rock, and it will go into the lye.

You've got to be very careful when you work with this stuff. You need to do this outside, away from pets or children, and wear protective clothing.

After literally bubbling this lye and rock mix as a liquid for a couple hours, then cooling it down, you can add water to it and boil it for another couple hours.

Before you bring the pH down you want to make sure you've got a clear liquid. You'll need to get rid of some of the rock that is at the bottom. Then you filter the clear liquid off the top and bring the pH of all that down to 8.5 using hydrochloric acid. We use miriatic acid from the hardware store.

This procedure will create a lot of ORMUS, but you must be sure that there are no toxic metals in your starting material. You must get an assay on the rock before you start.

These three different methods are obviously preferred in different places. If you're near a salt-water source you'll want to do the salt-water method. If you have good fresh water and can afford to waste some of it by irrigating with it or dumping it down the drain, then you use the magnetic trap method. If you're in the dry Southwest where there's lots of rock and very little water, you'll probably want to use the lye-burn method.

Because there are three different methods, most everybody should be able to find a method that will work for them so they can make their own ORMUS.

Adams: How successful are people in making ORMUS by following these directions?

Carter: It helps if you go to a workshop, but people have made ORMUS independently without any more help than what is on the Internet. A woman in Portland recently built one of the magnetic traps and did some experimental work with it, trying different materials. She's a weaver and she used some natural fibers in part of the trap in order to collect the ORMUS. The natural fibers didn't work as well as the synthetics that are in the plans, but at least she gave it a try and was experimenting with it a little bit.

A lot of people use the wet method on ocean water. Or you can use sea salt instead of ocean water, but it has to be the damp gray Celtic sea salt or the Masada Dead Sea salt. You just mix it with water first and then use that just as you'd use ocean water.

It's very easy to do — people who do it say it's easier than making bread or yogurt.

Adams: How important is it to communicate with the Asuras, or nature elementals, in the process of creating ORMUS?

Carter: People who are more intuitive or psychically sensitive have noticed that ORMUS elements seem to have a consciousness of their own. As I said earlier, ORMUS seems be a transitional material between the physical and Spirit. Even some fairly scientific sorts say that ORMUS is conscious and that it's got an awareness of its own.

So if you work with consciousness, then the chances are good that you're going to have better results. And if you work in contradiction to consciousness, then your results may not be as good. If these things store information and transmit that information through water — from water molecule to water molecule — then they're also capable of transducing thought.

Your thoughts have a great influence on these materials in terms of the nature of the effect that they have. It's as though you've got two bells: one bell resonates with love, and the other resonates with fear. The love bell is the dinner bell for all the good things that you want, things like abundance, connection, community, family. The fear bell is the dinner bell for lack, alienation, disunity, hostility.

The air that the sound from these bells travels through is comparable to the ORMUS in the water. ORMUS is the medium that the information goes through. The air doesn't care whether you ring the fear bell or the love bell. It will send the message either way.

It's important therefore to learn to ring the love bell more and the fear bell less. For that reason, we suggest that people learn to focus on the things they want instead of the things they don't want.

Adams: How can people join you in your field of research to learn more about making ORMUS, and how can they share the information about the effects that ingestion of ORMUS has on their bodies?

Carter: The WhiteGold email list was set up to help keep people updated on progress in the ORMUS arena. To join the WhiteGold list, send a message to WhiteGold-request@zz.com with the message Subscribe.

Also, I have set up a number of local workgroups so that people can help each other learn to make the m-state materials. If you would like to find out if there is a workgroup in your area, please let me know what city you live near. I regularly get reports of results from people who have been making and ingesting their own m-state materials. You can email me at: sumro@zz.com.

Barry Carter was born on June 25, 1949. Before he began researching the ORMUS elements he worked as the coordinator of a local environmental group. He first learned about the ORMUS elements in 1989. He went to one of David Hudson's lectures in 1995 and transcribed his tape recording of this lecture.

Carter has collected a vast amount of information on ORMUS through his own experiments with it and by encouraging other researchers to make their knowledge available. Since 1995, believing that ORMUS is "the greatest scientific discovery in human history," he has been putting this information on his website and has set up dozens of ORMUS-related email discussion lists. Since 1999, he has given fifty-six ORMUS presentations in cities around the United States.

To learn more about ORMUS, please visit Barry Carter's website at www.subtleenergies.com . You can email him at sumro@zz.com .

† In 1989 David Hudson was granted patents on these materials and methods for obtaining them. Two of these patents can be viewed online at the Monatomic Earth website.

References:

Nettleton, Stuart: The Alchemy Key
Cox, Robert: The Pillar of Celestial Fire
Gardner, Laurence: Genesis of the Grail Kings
De Lubicz, R. A. Schwaller: Sacred Science.
Fulcanelli: Le Mystere des Cathedrales (The Mysteries of the Cathedrals — translated from the French by Mary Sworder)
Zohar, Danah: Quantum Self: Human Nature and Consciousness Defined by the New Physics
Bentov, Itzhak: Stalking the Wild Pendulum: On the Mechanics of Consciousness
Velikovsky, Immanuel: Ages in Chaos
Leadbeater, C.W., and Besant, Annie: Occult Chemistry
Phillips, Stephen M., PhD, Extra-Sensory Perception of Quarks
Callahan, Philip S.: Paramagnetism — Rediscovering Nature's Secret Force of Growth
Tompkins, Peter, and Bird, Christopher: Secrets of the Soil
Patai, Raphael: The Jewish Alchemists
Friedman, Norman: Bridging Science and Spirit — Common Elements in David Bohm's Physics, Perennial Philosophy, and Seth